GM and Toyota: Don't expect fuel cells any time soon
The great hydrogen debate of '08 continues to heat up, with Bob Lutz from GM and Katsuaki Watanabe from Toyota echoing each other's statements regarding fuel cell vehicles for the mainstream market. The general consensus seems to be that fuel cells are still way too expensive for use in automobiles and that, since hydrogen is still not available in most areas as well as being difficult and expensive to capture and contain, what would be the point, really? Additionally, General Motors has made great strides in their lithium ion battery development, leading Lutz to comment, "If we get lithium-ion to 300 miles, then you need to ask yourself, Why do you need fuel cells?" That sounds like a reasonable question. Moreover, Toyota seems to be looking past even lithium ion batteries and into other new battery chemistries.
These new statements from GM and Toyota are in stark contrast to Daimler AG Chief Executive Dieter Zetsche's comment at Geneva that with mass-production, fuel cell drivetrains could get "into the cost range of conventional powertrains." At this point in time, it seems that an agreement is difficult to reach when it comes to the future of hydrogen. For sure, powering electric cars with power extracted from hydrogen is possible, the question is whether the technology will come down in price enough to make using it feasible for our automobiles and whether it is a better solution than just storing electricity in high-tech batteries.
Geneva 2008: GM's Bob Lutz and Mark Adams on biofuels and Saab 9-x
GM's biofuel parade in Geneva marches on with GM vice chairman Bob Lutz and Mark Adams, vp of design of GM Europe, talk to the Newspress cameras about bioethanol and the new Saab 9-X BioHybrid. Lutz talks mostly about how ethanol is the best short-term way to use less gasoline. For those of you interested in why Mr. Crock of Sh*t's would care about using less gas, he says that reducing CO2 emissions is just as important as reducing oil imports from unfriendly countries. Speaking about the 9-X BioHybrid, Adams explains a bit about the concept's aeronautic heritage (see the rear window) and talks a bit about the next-generation GM Hybrid system. Watch 'em both after the jump.
Chevy Volt batteries won't be in production in 2009, 2010 still the target
A few days a potentially big story broke as a result of an interview that BusinessWeek did with Continental North America CEO Bill Kozyra. In that interview, Kozyra is quoted as saying that the battery packs for the Chevy Volt would be production by late 2009. He is also quoted as saying the batteries would be in the Chevy Volt in late 2009. This of course got Volt fan's hearts all aflutter with the thought that they might be able to buy a Volt at least a year sooner than previously thought. Well Volt fanatics, it's time to take a valium and sit yourself down. You'll have a whole extra year to save your pennies for that new E-REV. I talked to Rob Peterson at GM shortly after seeing the interview and he knew nothing about any change in the schedule for the Volt program. This morning I finally got in touch with Jim Gill, the director of communications at Continental Automotive. Jim explained that there was a miscommunication between Kozyra and the reporter. The lithium ion batteries that Continental will have in production in 2009 are the smaller units that they are building for Mercedes-Benz mild hybrid system. If Continental/A123 Systems does get the production contract for the Volt battery packs they will not be in production until at least the second half of 2010. That production contract has not been awarded at this point. On a side note, Conti has delivered a second prototype Volt battery pack to GM this week. That pack arrived at the Warren Tech Center on Monday.
GM says "millions" of fuel cell vehicles possible in the next decade
"Reports of my death" the fuel cell might say "have been greatly exaggerated." Market Watch spoke with Larry Burns (see video below the fold), VP Research & Development & Strategic Planning for GM, at the launch of Virgin's fuel cell fleet and he is very bullish on fuel cells. Burns said that while today there are hundreds of fuel cell vehicles on the roads today, there will be thousands by 2012 and then hundreds of thousands or even millions "within our grasp" in the "next decade." A lot of progress was made in the last decade, Burns said, and GM is even talking with energy companies like Shell (remember when they used to be called oil companies?) about the future of fuel cells. Insanely optimistic fuel cell hype is back, baby!
Continental CEO claims Volt batteries will in production late 2009
Recently Bill Kozyra, the CEO of Continental Automotive Systems - North America, had a chat with BusinessWeek where he revealed some interesting information about the Chevy Volt. Continental has gotten into the battery business recently and will be supplying lithium ion batteries to Mercedes-Benz for their mild hybrid system beginning in 2009. The company is also partnered with A123 Systems as the pack integrator for A123 cells for the Chevy Volt. The first prototype Conti/A123 pack for the Volt program that was delivered to GM at the end of January has been undergoing testing since then. Kozyra told BusinessWeek that Continental would have Volt lithium ion batteries in production at the end of 2009. Asked if the batteries were going into production vehicles, Kozyra replied " Yeah. Specifically in the Chevrolet Volt in late 2009." Considering that GM has stated a target of late 2010 for Volt production, this seems highly optimistic. I checked with GM spokesman Rob Peterson, and according to him the target for the Volt is still late 2010. We're still waiting for a follow up comment from Continental on this one.
Geneva '08: Hitachi will supply batteries for new GM Hybrid system
Following the publication of our earlier story on the new generation GM Hybrid system this morning we got some more details from General Motors during their Geneva press conference. Prior to the show, GM declined to say who was supplying the lithium ion batteries for the system. We now know that Hitachi Vehicle Energy Ltd. will be supplying the batteries, a first for a GM system. The second-generation hybrid system will debut on North American models in 2010 and quickly spread globally, including in the production version of the Saab 9-X that is appearing as a concept in Geneva.[Source: General Motors]
Virgin Atlantic to use Chevrolet Equinox hydrogen fuel cell vehicles at LAX
Virgin Atlantic announced that it has joined forces with Chevy's "Project Driveway" program. Richard Branson's airline is going to use three Chevrolet Equinox hydrogen fuel cell vehicles for its "complimentary ground transfer service for upper class passengers" for planes landing at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX). The program will last for 30 months. Virgin and Chevrolet are studying the possibility to expand this service to New York. Branson stated that this program was one of Virgin's initiatives to reduce the airline's carbon footprint. GM's Larry Burns said that it was a perfect endorsement of GM's fuel cell technology and "an important new avenue for demonstrating the new DNA of the automobile."The Chevy Equinox looks like a conventional production car but the ICE has been with a fuel cell system plus a nickel-metal hydride battery pack under the floor of the vehicle. It's got three compressed hydrogen storage tanks made of carbon fiber and pressurized to 10,000 pounds per square inch (psi). The tanks contain roughly nine pounds (4.2 kg) of hydrogen good for a range of approximately 150 miles (220 km). Full press release after the jump.
Sunday, March 16, 2008
GM CEO responds
GM CEO responds to Lutz's global warming's a "total crock of sh*t" comment
Wall Street Journal blogs
about GM CEO Rick Wagoner recent talk to reporters in Washington about GM chairman Bob Lutz's recent comment that global warming is "a total crock of sh*t." Wagoner backed away from the comment, saying that "the comments weren't coming out of the company" and "I would have preferred to pass on the comment." Wagoner didn't back away from Lutz, though, calling him "the clear leader of GM's push to develop extended-range battery-powered hybrid vehicles."So, what does Wagoner think about global warming? Wagoner says "the data is pretty clear that the temperature on the earth is rising." Saying the globe is warming is quite different than saying humans are a significant contributer to that warming. The "non-confrontational" Wagoner, as the Journal describes him, has never said he believes in global warming or not (see 37 minutes into the video below the fold).What's GM doing about global warming? Wagoner says "it makes sense for us to put the business in a place where can respond productively." Wagoner also says that "a lot of things need to be done to address CO2" and that GM is investing "a huge amount of money" to fulfill the company's responsibility as a big player in society. In the past Wagoner has said electric cars don't look like the answer but GM has come around to the idea.
GM Biofuels manager responds to Minnesota E20 study
Over on the GMnext blog, Coleman Jones has posted a response to the recent push to go from E10 to E20 at regular gas pumps in Minnesota. Jones is the Manger of Biofuels Implementation at GM Powertrain. While GM has obviously been a huge proponent of the expanded use of ethanol, they are reluctant to endorse this move toward E20. Their concern has to do with durability over the long term. Vehicles sold as E85 capable have already gone through all the durability testing necessary to ensure that the engines, including the fuel system and exhaust system, will survive the long-term use of E20 and higher concentrations of ethanol. Non flex-fuel engines haven't gone through this kind of rigorous testing and a one year test of 40 vehicles isn't considered sufficient.
Coskata raised $19.5m in Series B funding
According to this tiny news posting, the cellulosic ethanol biotech team over at Coskata has raised $19.5 million in Series B funding (series B funds are made in the second round of investment in a private company). Whether that money includes the undisclosed amount GM put into the company earlier this year is unclear. I went hunting for the original regulatory filing where Private Equity HUB claims they found the information, but couldn't track it down. Coskata has not yet released an official statement about the funding, but PE says that backers named in the filing include Globespan Capital Partners, General Motors, Khosla Ventures, GreatPoint Ventures and Advanced Technology Ventures. The new name in the Coskata-backing lineup is Globespan.
GM offers more insight into their view of hydrogen
Like Toyota, General Motors has offered some additional information into their viewpoint regarding hydrogen and fuel cells. As we recently reported, Toyota's Irv Miller called out The Wall Street Journal for bad reporting practices when they quoted Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe as suggesting that fuel cells were falling off the alternative fuel roadmap. GM's Bob Lutz was also quoted in that WSJ article, and it seems that he may have been misunderstood as well. According to Robert Babik, director of emissions, environment, energy and safety policy at General Motors, the General still sees hydrogen as a possible solution to our energy woes. Maybe it'll take 50 years, but it seems that both Toyota and GM are committed to the technology.
Blast from the past: 1991 CNN report on GM Impact
Tell me if anything from this 1991 report (see video below the fold) by CNN sounds familiar. First introduced at the LA Auto Show, GM planned to sell a 120 mile range electric car very soon. The electric car would be produced in Michigan, with an initial production of twenty thousand and an estimated cost in the high twenties. There were problems with the batteries, which need to be replaced every two years for "several hundred dollars." There was also talk GM might include the cost of the batteries when you buy the car but they won't confirm. Familiar? Yeah, we thought so to.
CalCars jumps into the GM/Toyota PHEV battle. The winner is ...
Ron Gremban of CalCars has written an interesting guest piece over on Green Car Congress examining the debate between General Motors and Toyota that started last fall about the best approach to plug-in hybrid vehicles. The debate started when Toyota executives criticized the whole series-hybrid/extended range EV approach of the Chevy Volt. Gremban does a good analysis of the numbers looking at each type of powertrain over different driving cycles. So the obvious question is: Who's right, GM or Toyota? Both. As the old saying goes, tell me which side of the argument you're on and I'll give you the statistics to prove you're right. The bottom line is that the better configuration depends on which driving cycle you use. For the foreseeable future as batteries remain expensive, getting maximum benefit depends how far you drive and at what speeds. For shorter driving cycles and lower speeds, the less expensive blended PHEV approach used in the plug-in Prius and Saturn Vue get the most benefit from a smaller battery. People who drive at higher speeds or longer distances will get more benefit from an E-REV like the Volt, which comes at a higher cost. The bottom line is that there is no one right answer for everyone. The replacement of petroleum will require a diverse approach to energy. The best answer will depend on where you live and how you use the vehicle.
Toyota refutes WSJ fuel cell story
Recently the Wall Street Journal published a story claiming that General Motors and Toyota were both backing off on their fuel cell development efforts. It appears that in spite of quotes from GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz and Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe, fuel cells are still seen as the long term solution for on-board energy generation. Toyota communications boss Irv Miller has a new entry on the Open Road blog that corresponds with what Jaycie Chitwood and Bob Carter told ABG last month in Chicago. Toyota is still committed to the technology and has demonstrated the functionality. Their efforts now are focused on cost reduction. The other major issue - one that is outside of Toyota or GM's scope of responsibility - is the fueling infrastructure. It appears likely from what we've heard from multiple companies that widespread hydrogen availability won't happen first in the U.S. Places like China and Norway seem much more interested in making H2 a reality and will probably lead the way. Until that happens Toyota, GM, Ford, Daimler and other will press ahead on the vehicle side of the equation so that they are ready to go when the pumps are.
Wall Street Journal blogs
about GM CEO Rick Wagoner recent talk to reporters in Washington about GM chairman Bob Lutz's recent comment that global warming is "a total crock of sh*t." Wagoner backed away from the comment, saying that "the comments weren't coming out of the company" and "I would have preferred to pass on the comment." Wagoner didn't back away from Lutz, though, calling him "the clear leader of GM's push to develop extended-range battery-powered hybrid vehicles."So, what does Wagoner think about global warming? Wagoner says "the data is pretty clear that the temperature on the earth is rising." Saying the globe is warming is quite different than saying humans are a significant contributer to that warming. The "non-confrontational" Wagoner, as the Journal describes him, has never said he believes in global warming or not (see 37 minutes into the video below the fold).What's GM doing about global warming? Wagoner says "it makes sense for us to put the business in a place where can respond productively." Wagoner also says that "a lot of things need to be done to address CO2" and that GM is investing "a huge amount of money" to fulfill the company's responsibility as a big player in society. In the past Wagoner has said electric cars don't look like the answer but GM has come around to the idea.
GM Biofuels manager responds to Minnesota E20 study
Over on the GMnext blog, Coleman Jones has posted a response to the recent push to go from E10 to E20 at regular gas pumps in Minnesota. Jones is the Manger of Biofuels Implementation at GM Powertrain. While GM has obviously been a huge proponent of the expanded use of ethanol, they are reluctant to endorse this move toward E20. Their concern has to do with durability over the long term. Vehicles sold as E85 capable have already gone through all the durability testing necessary to ensure that the engines, including the fuel system and exhaust system, will survive the long-term use of E20 and higher concentrations of ethanol. Non flex-fuel engines haven't gone through this kind of rigorous testing and a one year test of 40 vehicles isn't considered sufficient.
Coskata raised $19.5m in Series B funding
According to this tiny news posting, the cellulosic ethanol biotech team over at Coskata has raised $19.5 million in Series B funding (series B funds are made in the second round of investment in a private company). Whether that money includes the undisclosed amount GM put into the company earlier this year is unclear. I went hunting for the original regulatory filing where Private Equity HUB claims they found the information, but couldn't track it down. Coskata has not yet released an official statement about the funding, but PE says that backers named in the filing include Globespan Capital Partners, General Motors, Khosla Ventures, GreatPoint Ventures and Advanced Technology Ventures. The new name in the Coskata-backing lineup is Globespan.
GM offers more insight into their view of hydrogen
Like Toyota, General Motors has offered some additional information into their viewpoint regarding hydrogen and fuel cells. As we recently reported, Toyota's Irv Miller called out The Wall Street Journal for bad reporting practices when they quoted Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe as suggesting that fuel cells were falling off the alternative fuel roadmap. GM's Bob Lutz was also quoted in that WSJ article, and it seems that he may have been misunderstood as well. According to Robert Babik, director of emissions, environment, energy and safety policy at General Motors, the General still sees hydrogen as a possible solution to our energy woes. Maybe it'll take 50 years, but it seems that both Toyota and GM are committed to the technology.
Blast from the past: 1991 CNN report on GM Impact
Tell me if anything from this 1991 report (see video below the fold) by CNN sounds familiar. First introduced at the LA Auto Show, GM planned to sell a 120 mile range electric car very soon. The electric car would be produced in Michigan, with an initial production of twenty thousand and an estimated cost in the high twenties. There were problems with the batteries, which need to be replaced every two years for "several hundred dollars." There was also talk GM might include the cost of the batteries when you buy the car but they won't confirm. Familiar? Yeah, we thought so to.
CalCars jumps into the GM/Toyota PHEV battle. The winner is ...
Ron Gremban of CalCars has written an interesting guest piece over on Green Car Congress examining the debate between General Motors and Toyota that started last fall about the best approach to plug-in hybrid vehicles. The debate started when Toyota executives criticized the whole series-hybrid/extended range EV approach of the Chevy Volt. Gremban does a good analysis of the numbers looking at each type of powertrain over different driving cycles. So the obvious question is: Who's right, GM or Toyota? Both. As the old saying goes, tell me which side of the argument you're on and I'll give you the statistics to prove you're right. The bottom line is that the better configuration depends on which driving cycle you use. For the foreseeable future as batteries remain expensive, getting maximum benefit depends how far you drive and at what speeds. For shorter driving cycles and lower speeds, the less expensive blended PHEV approach used in the plug-in Prius and Saturn Vue get the most benefit from a smaller battery. People who drive at higher speeds or longer distances will get more benefit from an E-REV like the Volt, which comes at a higher cost. The bottom line is that there is no one right answer for everyone. The replacement of petroleum will require a diverse approach to energy. The best answer will depend on where you live and how you use the vehicle.
Toyota refutes WSJ fuel cell story
Recently the Wall Street Journal published a story claiming that General Motors and Toyota were both backing off on their fuel cell development efforts. It appears that in spite of quotes from GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz and Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe, fuel cells are still seen as the long term solution for on-board energy generation. Toyota communications boss Irv Miller has a new entry on the Open Road blog that corresponds with what Jaycie Chitwood and Bob Carter told ABG last month in Chicago. Toyota is still committed to the technology and has demonstrated the functionality. Their efforts now are focused on cost reduction. The other major issue - one that is outside of Toyota or GM's scope of responsibility - is the fueling infrastructure. It appears likely from what we've heard from multiple companies that widespread hydrogen availability won't happen first in the U.S. Places like China and Norway seem much more interested in making H2 a reality and will probably lead the way. Until that happens Toyota, GM, Ford, Daimler and other will press ahead on the vehicle side of the equation so that they are ready to go when the pumps are.
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